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We start with proof that MTP is, indeed, a variable number. When you gain a level-up (be it all, or just some levels) you will be assigned a random MTP bonus. The variance in this bonus seems to be very small (which is probably why it was missed earlier), but it is there. I will verify as I play through my Japanese version of the game.
MTP Progression Chart
1) 10
2) 15
3) 20 (19-20)
4) 25 (24-25)
5) 30 (28-30)
6) 35 (34-35)
7) 40 (39-40)
8) 45
9) 50 (49-50)
10) 55 (54-55)
11) 60
12) 60 (N/A) Curse you, Xu Zhe!
Sample: Varialbe MTP [MSP below] after battle with Zhang Bao
lordyuanshu said:
eah that’s crazy. The Pang Tong battle shouldn’t be much more than a few thousand. I can’t imagine the rebel forces swayed the other 8000 though…You skipped the Pirates and Lu Meng right?
I have no idea what level I had Zhuge at. And yes, I’m beginning to think it is just random for TP.
I?m pretty sure it is the rebels, actually. When I was writing my walkthrough I was logging information on experience gains after battles, and I found that number-shifts in the rebel forces actually caused quite a bit of variation in a battle?s experience gain. I didn?t fight L? Meng or the pirates.
To make things even more interesting, a look at my old experience notes show that my battles with Pang Tong (who has a totally random number of rebels) averaged around 930 exp and my battles with L? Bu (I think his rebel total is set) averaged 2,500. That means there is an experience shift between our games of roughly 11,500, and no obvious explanation for the difference! The Pirate battle averages around 15,000 experience in and of itself (which also tells us that if you do that battle, your hopes of hitting level 39 are most likely shot up).
lordyuanshu said:
He slipped in a Wan Fu and you STILL won? Impressive, I don’t know how you would have the TP. I agree with your battle assessment though.
Yep, and just barely, too. I was expecting to die, but the next Ce Mian I cast carried me through over half of Sima Yi?s life. I ran out right there at the end (13 TP is a vicious taunt when looking across the battlefield at Cheng Yu, who was kind enough not to collect any heads or, perhaps worse, Wan Fu himself). I ended the battle with 9 TP after a final heal.
lordyuanshu said:
1 – Po Yang. I went through this in the Japanese version just recently and it was no easier. In both versions I just felt like the time that I won (2 out of 20 or so) I got really lucky. I’ve never been able to recover from Ji Rou by Chen Pu. Zhang Zhao is another variable who can destroy your party if he chooses to Bei Ji himself or his friends and use other spells. Bu Xi sucks pretty much but he can Li Jian your stupid officers.
I think that battle might very well be harder than Zhou Yu. I?ll have to get a better feel for it the next time through, because I got pretty lucky on my first battle with him. The Cheng Pu battle, though?that was truly tough. After getting slaughtered a few times I just basically went back home and rethought my whole strategy. I was fortunate enough not to have to deal with Ji Rou in the following battle. If I was playing with the ability to hire a few officers, Wu is probably the place where I would consider doing it (and Zhou Yu would probably be one of the people I hired).
lordyuanshu said:
2 – Ru Nan. The Sima Yi battle. I think this is the hardest Sima Yi battle by far under these circumstances with how low-level the army is. Both times I’ve succeeded I went after Xu Zhu and Dian Wei first and then Sima Yi. I can never afford the TP to use Ce Mian from the beginning so I have to hope that Sima Yi doesn’t foil my plans while I’m taking the other two out.
That?s interesting. On my way through, in battles like this, I relied on Ce Mian to deal with the super strategist, and I most completely ignored the warriors. Jin Xian, after all, is a very cost-effective way to heal your party. Do you use Bei Ji on your warriors? That might be the difference. I cast it on the heavy hitters of my party, and that makes a big difference when fighting. Also, now that I consider it, that might also be the difference. My party has a higher attack power than yours because I am using that dolt Zhang Bao. This increases my fear of tactics, but gives me greater strength in battle.
lordyuanshu said:
3 – Hui Ji. Zhou Yu. Again, another battle that I just got lucky on and didn’t have to deal with Hong Shui or An Sha or Ji Mian from Kan Ze and Zhou Yu.
I fully expect to be resetting my game a few times when I return to this battle.
One Hong Shui there must be horrible. Two must be a certain game over.
lordyuanshu said:
4 – Gate east of Bo Hai. I always have bad or no armor on at this point since I’m anal about not spending money until the end. Because of this I tend to die often here if the two dummy’s attack the same officer. Xu Shou always seems to be overly conservative for some reason.
I always come here with some armor upgrades on my weaker warriors, and I always have at least two Resurrects on hand. The armor upgrades give someone like Zhao Yun the ability to take a hit or two, and the Resurrects are almost always used well before I reach Yuan Shao.
lordyuanshu said:
5 – Ji Zhou. Bad armor and Lu Bu don’t mix well. Also I’ve never done this with Yuan Shu there and although he’s not much at this point in the game, I think he’d make the battle much harder.
Probably a similar situation for me, relative to my previous quote. I can only imagine how hard these battles must have been when you are not allowing yourself to shop! Some armor on my weak guys helps to defeat Lu Bu with no casualties (though sometimes a death or two happens simply because someone attacks the same person L? Bu did). This combined with a multi-target fire attack, and a wonderful all-party-heal, actually made this battle easier for me than Xu Shou. And yeah, I bet Yuan Shu would indeed complicate that battle quite a bit.
There are two treasures on the way that have over 1,000 each? Also, you can try restarting in either cave, because the gold totals of those treasures is variable. It can make a difference of nearly 1,000 gold.
– – – – – – – – –
Wow? a difference of nearly 14,000 experience, and the game says I was a little over 4,000 away from level 40 (which would have put me outside range of 39, which seems to be the lowest possible level). The only real differences in what we fought was the battles with L? Bu and Pang Tong. Are those battles good for 14,000 experience? That seems much higher than I recall. Maybe the rebel forces I faced through the game ate hardy meals, and thus, were more nutritious?
The most interesting thing I can see is the fact that your MTP is 136. That is one point higher than what I usually wind up with, being about 135. I usually hire Zhuge Liang at level 17, and I suspect odds are highly in favor of the possibility that you hired him at level 17 as well (do you recall?) This time I actually managed to hire him at level 16 (with around 230 experience to spare) and I have always suspected that such an act would result in much higher experience, but I wound up with a very low total of 122! I noticed your Japanese game landed at 133. I suspect it is reasonable to assume that the TP increase on each level varies, which would indicate that the true potential points are higher than any of us have reached. This could be something that might be fun to play around with using saved states? just because Destiny of an Emperor is worthy of this sort of attention.
I was thinking about managing them with little pictures of the Japanese characters as I went through the game. I?m going to be starting my Japanese game soon, so we?ll see what happens (and just how stubborn I can really be when it comes down to a project like that).
Ah, I now stand atop the corpses of Sima Yi?s men, prepared to usher in a new dynasty! I got tired of having to walk back and fourth through the caves at the end of Wei because I wasn?t strong enough to double-up battles like Xun Yu and Sima Yi, but it wasn?t a big deal. Sima Yi gave me a tough battle at the end?mostly because the worm slipped in a Wan Fu (as shown in the screenshots)?but I have to say Wei wasn?t the worst part of this challenge.
What was? Wu. Dealing with the likes of Zhou Yu and Cheng Pu.
Once you get An Sha the rest of Wu isn?t that bad. Once you get Jiang Wei, moving through Wei isn?t too horrible. Although that Ru Nan battle with Sima Yi can be rough. He was happy to use Bei Ji not only on himself, but his men as well, and I must say this?they hit hard when you are on such a low level.
I thoroughly enjoyed myself!
You know what would be really messed up for the challenge?
Having to face Sima Shi and Sima Yi without a retreat in the end for the victory!
– – – – – – – – – –
Game Complete Save Information
Nestopia (Macintosh OS X) 1.2.9
Level: 39
Money: 26,020
Food: 642,221
Exp: 304,452
Save Location: Rebuilt Luo Yang
Zhang Bao
– Nu Long [240]
– Plate M
– Steel H
Zhao Yun
– Halberd [250]
– Plate M
– Steel H
Jiang Wei
– Wan Sheng [190]
– Plate M
– Steel H
Guan Xing
– Bo Ye [190]
– Plate M
– Steel H
Ma Chao
– Qing Guang [240]
– Plate M
– Steel H
Zhuge Liang
– Crossbow [130*2]
– Plate M
– Steel H
Yeah, you?ll have to go into Jingzhou. Unless you got really spend-happy, you will probably have enough gold once you defeat the first castle there. Otherwise, you will have to defeat Han Xian, Huang Zhong, and Wei Yan?and that will be be quite a challenge without the experience you get fighting Yuan Shao?s officers. Good luck! Hopefully the money you have spent gives you some good equipment though, so you should be fine aside from that. :)
Edit: Chang Sha was too tough, eh? I guess if worst comes to worst, you can sell some equipment to make up the difference? I guess a lot depends on how far short you are. You can probably taken Chang Sha if you work at it, though. Having the Trident (which I completely forgot about?probably part of the reason why the area was so tough for me) and Ji Ling (which would have been awesome) will make a big difference.
Just about there! Ce Mian was kind to me? this round with Sima Yi wasn?t too bad.
armyant said:
LOL, i was only wondering does anyone here can get Xu Zhe before level 12 ^^.
I cant make it on time anyway,but is there any strategist who can learn Fu Bing?
Li Ri cant learn,what about Lu Fan? Does anyone try it before?
Sure. Ma Liang can learn it. I?ve used it several times before, so I suspect others can use it as well. I do have a memory of using it in Yuan Shao?s area, if only for a short period of time, but I cannot remember the details. That would suggest that either I learned it with Xu Zhu somehow, against all odds, or another earlier-game strategist knew it. You know? I wonder if Huo Hu learns it? I had a game where I used him as my strategist until I hired Zhuge Liang (just because?you don?t need a reason to use Huo Hu!)
Here?s a screenie from my run through the game under this challenge.
My tactician in this screenshot is Ma Liang.
You can?t go beyond 50, right?
I suspect the higher level cap is specific to that PC remake Samuel was talking about. It makes sense when you hear horror stories about Zhou Yu having over 20,000 soldiers?
armyant said:
Ok here is a challenge for you Zhang Lu, can you make it before level 12 to get Xu Zhe so as to get the tactics fu bing. I myself cant make it on time. By the time i defeated Yuan Shu i was level 11 and not enough time to get Xu Zhe before level 12 (As you need to defeated Bo Hai castle so as to recruit Xu Zhe, you will get level up and become level 12 -.-").
Is that even possible? Following the rules of this challenge, you take in the very smallest possible amount of experience, and if you don?t fight a single battle that can be avoided, always seeking to keep your level as small as possible, you pick up Xu Zhe at level 12. Even if you got him at level 11, he?d level up in the next battle?
You?re playing the challenge?
Good luck! The fun really starts when you get to Yuan Shao?s land. :)
I am impressed that you have managed to put as much together. I can only imagine the amount of time you and other have probably put into it considering the language barrier. I may be interested in having part in the project once Sima Yi has been slaughtered. And much like the ol? Lord, I too am entertaining thoughts of playing the Japanese DoaE.
